Torch bait, CP too!

"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69) 07/13/2017 at 07:27 • Filed to: VW, Volkswagen Beetle, CP

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Berang > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/13/2017 at 07:37

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I think already wrote an article about this exact car a few months ago when Jesse James was either buying or selling it.

AuthiCooper1300 > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/13/2017 at 07:37

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we used to know that the cars delivered to the high officials were special built 4wd units:

I wonder what kind of stuff smoked the people who told them that.

pip bip - choose Corrour > AuthiCooper1300 07/13/2017 at 07:55

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http://www.4wdco.com/view/collection/TYP87.php

Slant6 > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/13/2017 at 08:02

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As interesting as the history is I don’t think I could ever own something from the 3rd Reich. Just the pictures make me uneasy. Part of me wants to see it destroyed, but it is an important part of history. I can justify most artifacts because they teach about the past and stay as a reminder for the future.

Something this personal though, even if it wasn’t göring’s personal vehicle, just seems like it carries too much weight. This was used at the top.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Slant6 07/13/2017 at 08:04

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buy it and put it on display in a museum?

Slant6 > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/13/2017 at 08:08

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That is one of the least controversial things to do with it.

I don’t know. As unpopular as an opinion this is I’d like it destroyed. But I can concede for a museum.

AuthiCooper1300 > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/13/2017 at 08:28

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Your point being? That unformatted text is a nightmare because it is not quite well translated. Just for starters, around the middle it says:

Suspension: 4 wheel independent suspension. Front two transverse swing arms and single shock absorbers. Rear trailing arm, single cam type hydraulic damper and torsion bar (all around).

Later they repeat once or twice more or less the same information, but correctly (front trailing arms, rear swing arms).

The problem with the statement about “high officials” is that someone confused “high-ranking officers” and “high-ranking officials”.

“Saloon” KdFs of any kind (including cabriolets) were built in tiny numbers during the war. Those went mostly to high-ranking officials, as a gift and one of the prestige perks of power.

“Saloon” KdFs with Kübelwagen chassis (4x2) or Schwimmwagen-derived chassis (4x4) were used in the field as staff cars, i.e., by high-ranking officers.

(There weren’t many of those anyway because the fully-closed body was, indeed, very expensive to manufacture. And even fewer of them were 4WD.)

Not surprisingly the 4x4 version of the saloon KdF was called Kommandeurwagen, which can be loosely translated as “staff car”.

As I mentioned on the front page when Torchinsky wrote his article, one of the very few Kommandeurwagen extant, a true museum piece, was road-tested briefly by Jerry Sloniger, a famous journalist who was also a Porsche buff. He categorically mentioned that 4WD could only be engaged in first gear and reverse.

That text you linked to seems to say several contradictory things, I suppose because it has been cobbled up from several sources, translated into the language spoken by the company and now has been translated back so-so into English.

pip bip - choose Corrour > AuthiCooper1300 07/13/2017 at 08:41

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from what i can see , 4wd variants of the beetles were made by VW.

not in great numbers i expect, but they are real.

AuthiCooper1300 > Slant6 07/13/2017 at 08:41

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“it is actually said to have been delivered new to the staff of Hermann Goering”.

Well, what that likely means is that it was a staff car for the Luftwaffe (more specifically for the “Air Staff” or OKL) and Hermann Göring wasn’t at anytime anywhere near that car.

I doubt very much that Hermann Göring’s personal staff had anything to do with such a car. Göring was not exactly the kind of person who would go right to the front line of operations, so the need for such an utilitary machine was non-existent.

AuthiCooper1300 > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/13/2017 at 08:48

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Of course VW built 4WD KdF “Beetles”. I have never said otherwise. In fact I gave you a few more details on the subject.

What I question is the claim that “the cars delivered to high officials were special built 4WD units”.

Whoever wrote that description mixed up several concepts and said something completely wrong. Whether it was intentional, in order to make the car more appealing, or just sheer ignorance I don’t know. Probably a bit of both.

Berang > Slant6 07/13/2017 at 08:56

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I think somebody already discredited the connection to Goering. He likely never even sat eyes on it. But the seller will probably keep pushing the claim because it lends some infamy to the thing.

AuthiCooper1300 > Slant6 07/13/2017 at 09:03

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Regarding WW2 German “militaria” or even worse, Nazi “regalia”... I don’t get it either. As you say, these objects are so loaded (particularly the Nazi stuff) that just owning them would be uncomfortable.

There was a famous British car and aircraft collector who owned a postwar Morane Saulnier-built Fieseler Storch (this was in the 70s, I think). At some stage he had it painted with full German military markings and used to fly around with it.

The local veterans got in touch with him and told him in no uncertain terms that during the war they had shot down a couple of German aircraft and would have no qualms in doing it again.

fintail > Slant6 07/13/2017 at 09:56

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I doubt Göring c0uld even fit in this thing by that point in the war.

IMO destroying such an artifact, no matter the original owner, would be wasteful and short-sighted. Hiding and removing history doesn’t help the future, even if it offends some sensibilities. To my eyes, it is no worse than anything used by the Soviets, and several who strutted around as liberators while betraying others.

Kiltedpadre > Berang 07/13/2017 at 09:59

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The pictures certainly look like the same car, and it was in the same price range too. It was on eBay then with a starting bid of $525,000.

benjrblant > Slant6 07/13/2017 at 10:27

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As tough as it may be for some to look at, it should be preserved so that we can learn from the past- lest we make the same mistakes again.